Daniel Lubetzky

This speech is worth reading. It was the precursor to the Annapolis language that validated OneVoice’s mission.  And it provides a very good framework for where we are coming and where we need to go in order to ensure peace and security for Israel and Palestine.

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More and more
The darkness haunts me
The memory of before I was
The stone sinking deeper into the sea
The inevitability of evil
Will it never change?

More and more
The sleepless nights
The failure to bring light
The stone sinks deeper, a rope attached around:
A noose around humanity

More and more
The breathing gets harder
The tears are dry, crude salt
A grayer soul has seen the tombs
A frayed body finds its limitations

Maybe he was right that knowledge burns and hardens the heart.
Maybe he was right that only Generals can set the tone.
Would a final offering, foregoing life’s sustenance itself, awaken?

This poem is an apt warning to the dangers of political apathy and inaction when someone other than yourself is being persecuted…

First they came for the Communists,
- but I was not a communist so I did not speak out.
Then they came for the Socialists and the Trade Unionists,
- but I was neither, so I did not speak out.
Then they came for the Jews,
- but I was not a Jew so I did not speak out.
Then they came for the Catholics,
- but I was not a Catholic, so I did not speak out.
And when they came for me, there was no one left to speak out for me.

This poem is attributed to Pastor Martin Niemöller (1892–1984) about the inactivity of German intellectuals following the Nazi rise to power and the purging of their chosen targets, group after group.  For more info, take a look at the wikipedia entry here.

Here is a not untypical message we got from one of our amazing supporters – a rare amalgam of Christians, Muslims and Jews, Palestinians, Israelis, Americans, Europeans and Mexicans – who grow more loyal and more determined with every attack extremists and absolutists make against the mainstream moderates who want to break the shackles of hatred…

I know you must be feeling a little down after putting so much effort into the Oct. 18 event. You’re entitled to feel a little down, but don’t be down for too long because shit happens and what you are trying to do makes sense; I wanted you to know that even though this hasn’t come off right now, that I want to be very much supportive of your efforts going forward. I thought that maybe this would be a good time to make an additional $10,000 contribution to walk that talk. Feel free to use this money to defray any of the exceptional costs of the cancellation. I just want to help you move through all this stuff and put it behind you so that you can do your important work.

Keep the faith.

[Jason Alexander, who everyone knows for his acting but few know is exceptionally knowledgeable about international affairs and an exceptionally kind and loyal friend, wrote me a note that was very strong; I asked and received his permission to post] 

Danny, my friend –

I am so sorry to hear of this postponement and to read your blog and hear the travails that you have all been going through.
i am also encouraged by the 600,000 signatures and the fact that One Voice is now a threat to those who only wish to hold to a false sense of power by manipulating the hate of those who struggle.

several years ago i befriended an amazing man named tom leyden. tom spent 15 years of his life as a working, prosthelytizing neo-nazi white supremacist. once he had his epiphany and realized there was no value to his life, he removed himself from that movement and has dedicated his life to educating those people he previously would have targeted in order to warn them against the hatemongers.

the amazing thing is, tomorrow you get to try again. keep going.

your work will prevail.

jason

[Note, from my understanding, the releases that OneVoice Palestine sent in Arabic and the English release sent internationally are pretty much identical, except for one paragraph at the end of the Arabic one that explains to the Palestinian people why OneVoice Palestine has international partners and a parallel movement across the other side, as it is imperative to end the conflict to engage people on the other side also - something that should be obvious to anyone that truly wants to end the conflict, but which extremist factions have pointed to as a reason why they claim OVP is not advancing the Palestinian cause]

Press Release

President Abbas Affirms OneVoice Mandate Corresponds with his Platform

Saeb Erekat Explains OneVoice Palestine’s Goals Align with President’s Vision for Palestinian State

Singer Ilham Al Madfai Denounces False Reports, Emphatically Supports OneVoice

www.onemillionvoices.org

Ramallah – 18/10/2007 – In a press conference today, Dr. Saeb Erekat, Chief Palestinian Negotiator and Spokesperson of Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, explained that President Mahmoud Abbas asked him to clarify that OneVoice Palestine is a non-governmental organization committed to upholding the vision of President Abbas. Dr. Erekat delivered his remarks in a press briefing on the recent visit of U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice to the Middle East.

“The president would like to say that OneVoice organization is an NGO that has every right to work,” said Dr. Erekat.  Erakat explained the organization had sent invitations to a OneVoice Summit under the auspices of the President without receiving an official endorsement, but added that the OneVoice “political program, after Abu Mazen read it, reflects the President’s platform and the Palestinian objectives.” 

Erakat added, “[President Abbas] would like to reiterate his full support to those NGOs and civil society organizations that work for democracy, a culture of peace, and ending occupation on the basis of a two-state solution.”

Dr. Erakat explained that a lot of “misleading information” had been provided about OneVoice.  He said contrary to what was widely spread, “[President Abbas] read the document of OneVoice and this document corresponds with his political program of ending the occupation that began in 1967 by having two states: a Palestinian state with East Jerusalem as its capital next to an Israeli state along the 67 borders and solving the issues reserved  to the permanent status negotiations: Jerusalem, borders, refugees and settlements consistent with  relevance to the security council international resolutions.”

Today, renowned Iraqi recording artist, Ilham al Madfai, also re-affirmed his support for OneVoice, contrary to reports circulating that he had pulled out of the October 18^th Summit in Jericho. “I have been very clear to all those who have been calling that I regretted not being able to participate in OneVoice Palestine’s effort to raise the voice of the Palestinian people for an end to the occupation, and for peace in the region.” Mr. Madfai added, “I call upon all boycott groups to stop threatening and intimidating artists and to respect the freedom of all.”

Mr. Madfai explained he had received a lot of “threatening phone calls and warnings” from groups opposed to his visit but he cherished the day when all logistical and travel challenges, including procuring visas for al his crew and band, could be resolved to enable him “to sing with the Palestinian people and with the people of the world, a song of peace, justice, dignity, respect, and hope.”

OneVoice Palestine is part of a movement of ordinary citizens that now surpasses 600,000 signatories not just in Palestine and the Arab world, but with citizens in solidarity across America, Europe and Israel, who agree on the imperative of ending the conflict and propelling and supporting their Heads of State to immediately commence negotiations, uninterrupted till the conclusion of a two state agreement.  The international movement does not take specific positions on the agreement that the Heads of State must deliver, emphasizing that is a duty of the political representatives, but it does empower citizens to propel and support their Heads of State towards the negotiating table.  In efforts to mobilize the moderate majority in Palestine and Israel, the OneVoice Movement has trained over 3,000 Palestinian and Israeli youth leaders.  Specifically, OneVoice Palestine has trained 1,800 Palestinian youth leaders and has offices in Gaza and Ramallah.

OneVoice Palestine’s Honorary Board includes the Chief Islamic Justice, Sheikh Taysir al Tamimi, the son of President Abbas, Yasser Mahmoud Abbas, Dr. Saeb Erakat, and a dozen more Palestinian dignitaries, scholars, and religious leaders. www.OneMillionVoices.org

[Also note, Dr. Erakat was quoted verbatim and the language he explains reflects President's Abbas's positions]

Last night, I had a painful nightmare.  My Dad was having convulsions, pain in his chest and stomach, and I was helpless, unable to help him.  He was dying of what seemed like a heart attack, and I was paralyzed with fear.

The image has haunted me all day.

My Dad passed away four and a half years ago, and not a day goes by that I don’t think about him, but never this way.  I remember his kindness, his love for life, his good sense of humor, his treating every human being with respect.

I think the nightmare must have emanated from the subconscious but deep frustration I’ve experienced this last week with encountering so much pain, fear and ignorance, all transformed into hatred and anger, from vocal minorities that do not recognize the imperative of resolving the Israeli-Palestinian conflict by recognizing the humanity and rights of both sides.

I think the helplessness in the dream was a metaphor for the deep feeling of disappointment that I shared with all my team and all our volunteers for the setbacks in showing the voices of moderation on both sides, as we had intended. 

The fear I sensed is probably the fear of not being able to carry out our ultimate vision of bringing peace to the region, a mission I set for myself to do what I can so that others will not have to suffer the way my Father did in the Holocaust, which to me translates as the imperative of resolving the conflict so that the Israeli and Palestinian people will both have a future of freedom, security, dignity, and respect, not to mention to build prosperity and progress and light for the world.

What my Dad had to go through, I don’t want anyone again to go through.  I know I can’t help in all the areas where people ARE going through this (like Darfour!), but at least I want to make what little contribution I can to help the Israeli and Palestinian people.  And yet the utter dehumanization and self-righteousness that has overtaken some small but vocal segments of the population makes this an even harder task.

I don’t want to give up, as much as it is tempting to just say, "I’ve had enough." 

But too much is at stake.

I don’t want to be overtaken with anger and hatred myself, as increasingly hard as it is.  I need to resist the impulses, to try to understand, and to channel frustrations to constructive action.

I don’t want to disappoint the memory of my Father, as much as I fear doing so.

[Note from DL: This is a Very Important Development that I heard from our partners in OneVoice Palestine!  This press conference mentioned below was aired on Al Jazeerah, Al Arabiyah, and several other stations]

In a press conference earlier today, October 18, 2007, in Ramallah, where Dr. Saeb Erakat was briefing the media about the Rice visit, he concluded with a clarification that Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas asked him to give regarding the OneVoice Movement. 

Below is the transcript of his words in English, which correspond almost verbatim to his words in Arabic [brackets provide differentiation]

I want to say one another thing, there was supposed to be an event today by an organization called OneVoice and the President asked me in my press conference to clarify the following:

- This organization sent invitations under the auspices of the President without consulting him [the Arab transcript also adds that "the organization has apologized for this"]

- Nevertheless the President would like to say that OneVoice organization is an NGO that has every right to work and that its political program, after Abu Mazen read it, reflects the President’s platform and the Palestinian objectives, and Abu Mazen would like to reiterate his full support to those NGOs and Civil society organizations that work for democracy, , culture of peace and ending occupation on the basis of two states solution.

- And he said, contrary to what was widely spread, he read the document of OneVoice and this document corresponds with his political program of ending the occupation that began in 1967 by having two states: a Palestinian state with East Jerusalem as its capital next to Israeli state at 67 borders and solving the issues reserved  to the permanent status negotiations: Jerusalem, borders, refugees and settlements  consistent with  relevance to the security council international resolutions.

Besides the fact that we have no alternative but to get this thing resolved, the other source of energy from which I derive my continued commitment to push to end the conflict in spite of the sobering challenges is the incredible resilience and commitment from ordinary citizens and members of the movement.

Tomorrow at 7pm Jerusalem time, Yahoo will show something not seen before at http://video.yahoo.com/onevoice.

We had to move fast to provide this, given that it was different from our original vision.

A new friend of OneVoice Israel, a filmmaker named Avi, stayed till dawn the night before helping us compile some files, as did the FTP transfer internet company team that had to stay up till 4 am uploading a file.

This reminded me of last January, when Naim stayed up till 5am in the morning to ensure that certain files were ready for the Davos presentation to 1,000 world dignitaries, together with President Abbas, President Peres, Tzipi Livni, and Professor Klaus Schwab.

As we are moving at such fast pace and growing at such fast pace, we often face fast-approaching deadlines and seemingly impossible timetables.  And always ordinary citizens rise up to give the movement a boost.  They always are so committed and energized to do their part – this is the ONLY reason why this movement has mushroomed to 600,000 people and to such influence on the minds of so many – because it can channel the frustrations and energies from the millions who cherish an end to the conflict into some concrete positive steps that bring us closer.

Today several friends forwarded to me an email from a Palestinian Boycott group called PACBI and from a gentleman named Haithem El-Zabri, one of the people that are core organizers for the anti-OneVoice efforts.  They said that the postponement of the OneVoice Summits was a "Victory."  And in the same statement they indicated support for "peace." 

It is hard for me to understand how anyone who sincerely wants peace can think that any setback in sincere efforts at mobilizing moderate voices to support an end to the conflict can be seen as a victory.

As I am trying very mightily to stick to my personal pledge not to let hatred seep into me again, not even from those who intentionally or unintentionally distort what OneVoice is about, I will do my best to be rational and positive and to seek as much as possible to counter extremism (as an ideological position) as opposed to counter people I would have considered extremists (thereby labeling them as they label me, and affixing them into a static and permanent position as an enemy).  I will of course address why positions that amount to extremist positions have to be re-thought, and encourage their re-thinking.

In fact, today I am making Haithem El-Zabri into my friend.  He above many had angered me so much over the last few weeks.  And I am sure I have angered him also (I’ve seen a few of the emails he’s sent out about me, quite angry, but none violent, and for the record I never stated he made violent threats, but I saw and showed that others did, as reported in earlier blog entries, and as artists and staff reported to the authorities; just on this point, I encourage Mr. Zabri, I mean Haithem, and PACBI, to be careful not to assume that because OneVoice Palestine or artists supporting them receive threats they have to necessarily come from their groups; I do know that at least one person that belongs to Another Voice made a violent threat to blow up the OV office online, and I also know that artists personally complained to me about the threats and intimidation they were facing, not just from Palestine but also from Lebanon, and I also know that serious threats were reported to the authorities and need to be dealt with by them, not by public discussion).

But instead of continuing this path of increased confrontation with a group that opposes OneVoice, and instead of placing OneVoice into the negative us-vs-them mentality that has kept this region in such pain for so long, I will welcome them to understand us better.  If they choose to, maybe they will come around.  If they don’t, then the hatred will be theirs to deal with, not ours.

Anyway, what puzzles me is why PACBI, Haithem, or anyone else would take so much energy to oppose a mobilization of citizens demanding an end to the conflict.  OneVoice is at its essence a civic movement here to amplify voices of moderation, to propel leaders to the negotiating table to end the conflict.

Is there a reason why they oppose negotiations? Is it that any negotiation is in and of itself wrong because it acknowledges the other side? If that is the answer, then the word "peace" has no place in their lexicon, if we are to be earnest.  Let’s then just acknowledge then that they do not support peace, but an absolute imposition of a position from one side on the other, whether through war or otherwise. So do they oppose negotiations? I would appreciate understanding this.

Another argument PACBI and Zabri advance is that OneVoice was not specific enough about what a two-state solution or any solution would entail.  But this is disingenuous because as I have explained in the past, OneVoice does NOT advance a concrete solution because that is not its mandate, and its 600,000 signatories thus far do not have to agree on the specifics – that would be pretentious because that is not their job but the job for their elected representatives.

This does not mean there are no answers out there.  As most polls demonstrate, as the Clinton parameters demonstrate, as the OneVoice citizen negotiations we organized in 2003-2004 demonstrated, and as Chairman Arafat’s endorsement of the Taba agreement demonstrate, this is not an intractable conflict – there are answers out there, if we really want to recognize that TWO peoples are destined to live in this land and must come to terms with their mutual rights to freedom, dignity, respect, security, etc.

Again, all of the above are provided as examples for skeptics that believe that there are no answers out there and we are destined to live at war.  But they are not official positions of OneVoice because OneVoice is a civic movement to amplify the voice of moderation and not a political party.

OneVoice does NOT take specific political positions on how the conflict has to be resolved – it cannot pretend to, when its 600,000 signatories and its 60 dignitaries span a spectrum of politics and beliefs and don’t agree on all issues.  What OneVoice emphasizes, and the only thing that all of its members are asked to sign on to, the OneVoice Mandate, is that the two heads of state must immediately resume negotiations, and continue in an uninterrupted fashion till they strike an agreement.

Now, you can make arguments why negotiations could result in undesirable results – for example, what if the Heads of State propose something that the people don’t find acceptable? But really, does this warrant not trying to get the leaders to agree? If so what would be the way that Haithem or PACBI suggest we should further an end to the occupation – I assume that they don’t want a solution imposed on them, so what precisely will be the mechanism they recommend, presuming they don’t want war or violence?

And again, why would anyone, even if they are skeptical about what can negotiations bring about, exert such assertive opposition to the efforts of ordinary citizens to demand progress in the negotiations?

Sometimes we lose sight of the mission and group start furthering an institution rather than a vision to better the peoples’ lives.

The "Boycott" group takes a very firm stance against cooperation between any Israeli and Palestinian groups or NGOs – they are here to Boycott Israel.  Well, first of all OneVoice is designed to build parallel but totally separate mainstream nationalist movements, one with Palestinian leaders advancing the will of the Palestinian people and working in Palestine, and a totally separate one with Israeli leaders advancing the will of the Israeli people and working in Israel.  While these are separate groups with different narratives, they do both share the aspiration for an end to the conflict.

In this case, the parallel work that the Boycott group was opposing was the mutual (though expressly not joint) manifestation of moderates on both sides to end the conflict through a two state solution.

OneVoice Palestine clearly wants and works to end the occupation (as do I of course, and as should do every Palestinian and every Israeli that want an end to the conflict, it’s the only way – just like recognizing the right of Israel to exist is also the only way out of this, and if any Palestinian hasn’t figured that one out, well, then I address that below).

So, is a "Boycott" group so driven by its narrow focused vision that it will celebrate when these moderate voices, when its own people, are not heard?

This was such a sad setback not just for OneVoice – that is less important – but for the people of the region.  Our vision is to show that both sides have a partner on the other side in the people.  Why would any Palestinian oppose showing the positive face of the Palestinian people, which is so critical to overcome dangerous bias that prevents progress towards ending the conflict?  This is why I was so disappointed, not because there wasn’t a concert, which is just a tool, but because this was a setback to our mission of showing the moderate voices to all, to inspire citizens to become more active towards pushing to end this conflict once and for all.

To go further than that, to blindly oppose cooperation between Palestinians and others is just shortsighted and unwise.  Palestinians who want to end the occupation should welcome partners who agree with that, and frankly the best counterpart Palestinians can find are Israelis who out of their enlightened self-interest recognize this because it is Israelis that are the ones they are destined to find a settlement with.  Same with the opposite argument, of course, that Israelis need to engage Palestinians as their counterparts.

I will go further.  Another Voice and PACBI criticized that OneVoice Palestine was associated with a movement that on the other side in OneVoice Israel included hawkish voices.  BUT THIS IS THE MAGIC OF ONEVOICE.  That OneVoice Palestine itself is not made up just of liberal dreamers, but includes fiery Palestinian nationalists like Sheikh Taysir al Tamimi, the Chief Palestinian Islamic Justice, and that OneVoice Israel is not made up only of people from the left, but also of Generals, and Knesset members from Kadima and Shas and Mafdal who in spite of all their differences join together as OneVoice for an end to the conflict.

It is a strength that the movement includes people and leaders from all walks of life, as this is what it will take to end this.

Indeed, the same logic applies to my reaching out to PACBI and Haithem, as I have often done to right-wing Rabbis.  I find that some times the most entrenched hawkish people, the most doubtful of the others’ rights or intentions, once they see that there is a way we can get there together, become the most ardent supporters of our movement. 

Now I am not naive, here. I have read a lot of what Haithem has written in the past, and he opposed President Arafat’s negotiations, so I don’t have much hope he will support Abbas, let alone a movement that encourages Abbas and Olmert to advance the negotiations process.  But if Haithem is sincere in his beliefs that he wants "peace" then perhaps we can establish some understanding – perhaps he can explain to me his vision of peace is.  And if it recognizes the rights of both peoples to freedom, dignity, respect, security etc, maybe we will get somewhere.

On an international front, by the way, I also strongly think that anybody who wants Palestine to rise up as a nation, and anyone who wants Israel to live with security, should welcome all the allies that can bring momentum to this cause – and the OneVoice Movement is a formidable tool to raise awareness about the imperative of moving here.  So again, I don’t understand why anyone who sincerely wants "peace" would take the time to attack OneVoice.  Is this really the best use of someone’s time? Why would this upset them so much if they don’t harbor extremist ideologies?

Another argument I saw PACBI and Another Voice make is that OneVoice engages in moral equivalency – comparing the duties of the occupier and occupied.  First of all, I have no idea how they draw this conclusion.  OneVoice doesn’t engage in any moral assessments – that is the role of Imams or Priests or Rabbis or Judges or international arbitrators or human rights activists or diplomats, etc, but not ours.  We focus on working solutions to move beyond the past and the present, with all of its suffering, and to move to the future where answers do lie.

What is interesting about the "moral equivalency" argument is how frequent it comes from BOTH SIDES.  Jewish leaders often ask me, "Daniel, by using the OneVoice language, aren’t you risking putting us in the same basket as terrorists?" [Here is the most recent example, hot off the press, from the Jerusalem Post, and unfortunately it comes from the producer of one of my favorite movies, Central Station]  And Palestinians often ask me, "Daniel, by using the OneVoice language, aren’t you risking putting us the occupied in the same basket as the occupier?"  Again, DO NOT MISQUOTE ME.  These are verbatim the question I hear over and over again from others.  As far as OneVoice is concerned, we are not in the business of putting people in baskets and evaluating the righteousness of each side.  I am sure that OneVoice Palestine members feel they are in general more righteous and OneVoice Israel members feel they are in general more righteous.  Let each side say what it may in their narrative, but they join as OneVoice in the Mandate to end the conflict.

This brings me to a big and unfair attack claiming that OneVoice gives different information to different sides.  The fact is that the common language that all agree to at OneVoice is the OneVoice Mandate, and that IS the fundamental document that is identical and has no differences. But we WANT OneVoice Palestine to be motivated by Palestinian interests, and we WANT OneVoice Israel to be motivated by Israeli interests, so of course their language on the "WHY" they do what they do will be different.

It seems a bit hypocritical to complain that OneVoice Palestine is not nationalistic enough, and then to complain that it works with the other side, and then to complain that the other side doesn’t share the same identical narrative that OneVoice Palestine does!  Each side is driven by its own motivations: OneVoice Palestine wants to achieve a vibrant Palestinian State; OneVoice Israel wants to achieve permanent security; but they BOTH JOIN ON THE MANDATE.

So if all of the above "reasons" are not real satisfactory reasons to garner all time and energy to attack an organization that seeks to amplify the voice of moderation, what is the reason to oppose OneVoice? 

My guess, all along, has been that the real reason why Haithem and PACBI oppose OneVoice is because they oppose the concept of a two state solution and are threatened by the fact that the overwhelming majority of Palestinians and Israelis – 76% consistently on both sides – support this as the only real way to end the conflict.

First let me explain why anything other than a two state solution is not going to achieve peace.  Simply, because the overwhelming majorities do not want it.  Jews in Israel will not accept the destruction of Israel as the State of the Jewish people.  This is the only State in the world where someone persecuted as a Jew can find a haven.  Palestinians in Palestine have nowhere else to go and want and have the inalienable right to build a nation in Palestine.  Neither side is going anywhere else.  Neither side wants to be ruled by the other.  Each side, overwhelmingly, wants its own state, and let the others have theirs too, because that is the only way out.

I often get people telling me that of course they want "peace" but then they go on to provide a version of absolutism that denies the right of the other side. I have Israeli friends that tell me that of course they want peace but since the Jews only have one State and Arabs have 22+ States, why can’t Palestinians just go to one of the Arab countries?  Well, that is not ever going to happen, and Palestinians also don’t have anywhere else to go.  I have Palestinian friends who sincerely tell me they want peace but that a condition to this must mean that every single Palestinian who was displaced from Lod or Haifa or elsewhere in present day Israel must be given all of the land they had and all Palestinians and "Israelis" can then live in one binational state.  Well, again, this is not ever going to happen.  PLEASE DO NOT MISQUOTE ME.  I am NOT taking any positions on any of these issues because in my OneVoice role I cannot do so.  The OneVoice Movement includes many people that hold a variety of beliefs on all of these issues.  BUT WHAT THEY ALL RECOGNIZE IS THAT ULTIMATELY THIS THING IS NOT GOING TO BE RESOLVED IF BOTH SIDES DON’T COME TO TERMS WITH THE FACT THAT A COMPROMISE MUST BE MADE.

So why is a One State "solution" no solution at all? Because it cannot come about, period.

Anyone who pretends otherwise is either not privy to correct information or otherwise harboring the hope that they will one day impose an absolutist solution on the other.

But EVEN if I couldn’t convince PACBI or Haithem that a two-state solution is the only way forward, is attacking this movement dedicated to mobilize both sides towards personal responsibility to end the conflict really the best way for them to invest their energies?

So to PACBI and Haithem, and to all others who have opposed OneVoice in the past, including by the way also a lot of right-wing groups on the Israeli side who have similarly attacked OneVoice Israel among similar lines, based on misinformation or principle, please ask yourselves:

What is better, to hold on to impractical absolutist visions that will only protract this conflict and keep this beautiful region hostage, or to find a way to end the conflict through a two state solution? Shouldn’t we all be better if we can work a way to move forward recognizing both sides?

Can we dare dream even of a day when the children of this region will transcend all this hatred and suffering, including the toils of occupation as well as the toils of violence and insecurity?